With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound he pulls the spitting high tension wires down – Helpless people on a subway train scream bug-eyed as he looks in on them – He picks up a bus and he throws it back down as he wades through the buildings to the center of town
Oh no! They say he’s got to go go go Godzilla! Oh no! There goes Tokyo go go Godzilla!
“Godzilla” by Blue Oyster Cult
If you follow the mainstream press, you have no doubt heard that the world is coming to an end, and the monsters have carried their eternal battle into the streets. Bold, glowing headlines on computer screens across the land document the devastation inflicted on the helpless populace. Hyperventilating news anchors sputter out the latest updates from weary field correspondents. Armchair generals debate tactics and assign blame, but even the mighty US military is unable to control the situation, due to cutbacks.
As in most championship bouts, there is much bias directed toward one monster over the other. Some are rooting for GOPzilla, who is the decided underdog (undermonster?) in the match. Most are putting their money and mouths on Demobamula, the current title holder. Each faction preaches that their monster can save us from the utter destruction the other will bring down upon humanity.
In truth, both have had their good moments, like when they protect us from other, even more malevolent monsters than themselves. There’s Alqaedasaurus, who almost devoured New York. Demobamula cut off its head, and even though it just grew back more heads, most people were happy with a symbolic victory. It took GOPzilla two rounds to finish off Sodamninsane, and many believe he was only a third rate monster anyway. GOPzilla and Demobamula used to be able to work together to defeat alien threats, but even that has disappeared in the current climate.
Without an external enemy to slap around, the monsters have turned on each other, and in doing so left their gargantuan footprints all over the landscape. The rest of the world looks on and wonders which will prevail, and what it will mean for them.
But there is also the fear that neither will be able to totally destroy the other, and that means more suffering for everyone. It has become impossible to make any kind of coherent plan for the future while the blood feud eats up the nation’s time and resources.
Some scientists believe that the two leviathans suffer from a brain disorder that has led them to the outer fringes of sanity. An inner rage that has consumed all reason in their reptilian minds, causing each one to believe that only his power should rule the world. With such delusions of grandeur fueling their hatred, it seems likely that the war of the dinosaurs will continue until one is destroyed, or the earth itself succumbs to their anger.
As the huddled masses cower before such mayhem, they are left with the knowledge that they voted for these monsters! They created these behemoths, and they can’t control them anymore. Even if one finally kills the other, we’ll still be stuck with an overbearing monster.
History shows again and again that nature points out the folly of men – Godzilla!
Visualize our future… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln8-Y-fIbqM
There were reportedly 12 shutdowns during Tip O’Neil’s speakership. It used to be accepted as a basic fact that there would be times when push would come to shove, and everyone would have to come to the table to negotiate.
“If you capitulate we’ll think about throwing you a bone sometime later. No guarantees” isn’t exactly a negotiation.
The BIG difference between yesteryears negotiations with Tip O’Neil and today, (or any other such past kerfuffles), was that they were a part of the BUDGET negotiations, not a small, well-funded faction imposing their will to overturn settled law unrelated to current fiscal problems. The ACA has no impact on our budget, plain and simple. What’s next? A budget fight over Roe v Wade?
Bob’s story above needs a sub-plot, where a small virus has overtaken the good monster, causing him to run rampant through the city, doing all manner of collateral damage to it’s citizens and even the ones making the movie itself, and any scientist who dares to work on a solution is threatened with infestation.
The ACA (“Obamacare”) has a great impact on federal expenditures. And one of O’Neill’s shutdowns was over the Fairness Doctrine; Tip wanted Reagan to direct his FCC to reinstate it. So, no, it hasn’t always been just over the budget. Or was Speaker O’Neill a terrorist?
Also, in those days the Senate and the President went along with the budget process that was in law, rather than ignore it and go with Continuing Resolutions which are an abomination.
And didn’t the lamestream media tell us the Tea Party was dead and irrelevant? Funny how 63 TP R’s get the libs all in a lather.
If not for the infusion of corporate dollars, the tp would have died long ago. I’ve always seen it as the ultimate insult that they wold even invoke the name of most heralded, (albeit, drunk), patriots.
And you need to look at the bigger picture, Todd. While you’re chuckling at the fact that it’s a “gotcha'” against liberals, it’s the whole nation that suffers for their asinine behavior, if not the world economy.
What started as a true grass roots movement is now anything but…and only fools are laughing at the joke it has become.
And tell us how much those corporations put into the TP coffers. Seems to me you are making that one up from whole cloth. Especially since they were not given 501C3 all this time. Also, the Tea Party is made up of thousands pf independent groups like the one here in Nevada County so how is your premise even possible?
Let me know when you have a serious question, Todd. You can’t possibly be so informed on the political scene and so naive at the same time.
I suggest, if you’re the least bit serious, that you start by looking at where those “63 TP R’s” get their campaign funds and where the money comes from to mount a campaign against them if they should decide to vote their conscience over the wishes of the TP donors. Take away the threat of a primary fight and at least half of the support for this idiocy vanishes.
C’mon, if you want to have a serious conversation on the issues, you need to drop the BS on the dog and pony show.
Just as I thought, you are simply making it up.
I’m no fan nor friend of the Tea Party nor any party for that matter, but all this recent (< 1 year) stems from a sloppy "study" done by the BMJ group that attempted to tie Tea Party Groups to the Tobacco Industry due to the sponsorship of Big Tobacco of two notable Right Wing outfits: Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity.
In their "study," mostly conducted over the Internet, they attempted to tie the Tea Party, er, parties back to the 1980s and early 1990s, explicitly stating that the Tea Parties are not a grassroots effort, but the cynical and calculated plan of Big Tobacco.
However even a quick glance at their methods gives makes even an undergrad sociology student blush. (see for yourself and familiarize yourself with "snowball sampling:" http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2013/02/07/tobaccocontrol-2012-050815.abstract)
Anyhow, speaking of cynical, this "study" is no doubt a political hit piece first, and then a secondly a sophomoric attempt at research. The idea was, given that the authors and the BMJ are staunchly anti-smoking, the ends justified the means. Just get the Abstract into the Huffington Post.
And ultimately because 'Merikans don't read, but rather rely on hearsay or youtube or some other third or fourth party copy-cat source, they had nothing to worry about.
Oh, and there's the Koch Brothers. Exit question: How much money has local Tea party people received from the Koch Brothers? or Freedom Works, etc? (that's an honest question)
Not being a Tea Party member I am not privy to the books of the thousands of “parties” out there. I would suggest anyone having a question about the source of their funds here in our county call Rick Briggs. He also works at B and C. Chris Peterson has simply made up his “facts” and needs to do that somewhere else as we here smoke out the lies.
Smoke a bit of this, Todd.
Si what, all good things are planned.
You asked where the TP money is coming from, and said my statement of large corporate funds was BS. This is one of many, many articles showing the money trail of corporate donors that is fueling the TP, but you may now continue your impersonation of a political ostrich with it’s head up it’s …
It’s the neoconservative logo.
Let’s also not forget that the outline for the ACA was not only the Heritage Foundation’s idea, your last Presidential candidate actually put it into law as governor of MA.
Like the joke says: if they had called it Reagancare, you folks would be all over it.
Nothin’ but political BS.
So did a corporation give to all the thousands of independent Tea Party organizations? Your premise is flawed.
You left out your link.
Also, people and politicians change their minds and I could care less that at one time the Heritage may have supported something similar. Hell, Obama was against homosexual marriage before he was for it, right?
You libs crack me up. You trash everything conservative all the time but if there is one thing you can find as something you can use you hypocrites claim allegiance to that. Too funny.
Typical liberal responses ChrisP, try harder. Also, did you talk to Rick Briggs of our local Tea Party?
The Heritage did and didn’t(see below) draft a plan for something similar to PPACA. It’s important to remember that things are not monolithic and clear. Most things are wrought with ambiguity and disagreement:
I recommend reading all three above before commenting more about what the Heritage did or did not do.
I couldn’t care less about talking to a teabagger. Why in the world would a registered independent citizen, who’s sick and tired of both political parties, want to talk to a radical wingnut of one of them. Get real, Todd.
And I don’t trash everything conservative; just the neoconservative things. Your party is right now having a power struggle between those who maintain the conventional form of conservatism and the radical, corporately-backed neo’s like yourself, yet whenever you get into a shouting match, you claim that the true conservatives are on your side. BS. As many articles point out; if it weren’t for the fact that most are being threatened by primary opposition backed by the likes of the Koch Bros., none of them would even consider your agenda.
And if need be, I will furnish you with proof that the small, independent groups of TPer’s you speak of contribute but a smattering of funds compared to their corporate puppet-masters. But then again; you’d just come up with some ridiculous faux-news BS from a TV millionare who’s paid to tell you what to think. You’re so wrapped up in defending the partyline that you’ve lost all ability to think independently.
You are, Todd, a political zombie, and nothing more than an insignificant tool of people who couldn’t care less about your well-being.
Good luck with that.
Those who live in Todd’s world cannot identify outside an A or B opinion.
The Tea Party is right on the mark with their outrage of the establishment within the government of both D’s and R’s. The Tea Party solutions perpetuate the ideology of a small few billionaires with the small few that control the establishment, which in turn controls the leadership on both the D’s and R’s.
Where those like Todd have it correct and don’t even realize why they have it correct is when they claim each Tea Party is independent of one another. Where those like Todd have it wrong is that the influence of the billionaire backed freedomworks national Tea Party that gets on the national media and FOX have little interest of common Americans but rather want more control over our banking and energy policies or lack of policies. The common American who belong to the local chapters of the Tea Party are correct in the outrage but that outrage is being used to further the agenda of billionaires not small farmers or general contractors with a dozen employees.
The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree.
The John Birch Society and Tea Party Patriots: Inside the Ohio “We the People Convention”
ChrisP, you are too funny. A chicken to call the source of your outrage. What a wimp. You and BenE can go sit together and sing kumbaya at the basket weaving school. You never disappoint we real American patriots. BenE I’ll give a slight break since he has been brainwashed and it is not all his fault.
But liberals like you too are why the country is in the mess it is in and people like me are trying to fix it.
Well-meaning and earnest citizens are being played for fools by corporate interests. This from a convention in Texas for the training of Tea Party supporters:
“Five hundred people attended the summit, which served, in part, as a training session for Tea Party activists in Texas. An advertisement cast the event as a populist uprising against vested corporate power. “Today, the voices of average Americans are being drowned out by lobbyists and special interests,” it said. “But you can do something about it.” The pitch made no mention of its corporate funders.”
It was paid for by the Koch Bros., the ultimate in corporate lobbyists and special interest.
I have no bad feelings towards the Tea Party citizens; they do not threaten me in the least. What I do vehemently oppose is those who secretly fund their actions and subvert their message.
Well it can’t be too secret if you list the Koch Brothers can it? Those brothers have funded people and organizations all their lives and with their own money. They are a privately held company as I understand it. Also, a corporation is a group of people, simple to understand. I bet you support the eco organizations whole heartedly that are the recipients of corporate money don’t you? The differecne is in your head not on the ground. You are a biased person who has a mean streak for your brethren. The Tea Party is made of of a lot of those from the military as well. I suppose you have no use for them?
I would also alert you to the 50,000 people employed in the myriad of businesses by the Koch’s. Tell us ChrisP, do you own any stocks, Hedge Funds, T-Bills? My guess is probably.
Bottom line is you are a chicken to call Rick Brihhs becasue it would cause you too think outside your little box. You are a liberal zombie. Sorry for you.
You can go to the meetings of the movers and shakers of the past in Nevada County and feel important while I participate in preventing the Rosevillisation of Nevada County tomorrow. It is an uphill battle with those who continually have short term very profitable goals for themselves in mind.
The funny thing about this is I am the conservative trying to preserve small town values in the area and you are the liberal who believes more development and large corporate franchise chains is the answer.
To use one of your favorite phrases-What a hoot!
Forty years ago, when I got back from overseas, I would have driven over to your house and kicked your ass for questioning my patriotism. Now, your words are the hollow ramblings of a fool with visions of self-grandeur, who has long fought a war of words, but never put his ass on the line for his country.
From my 7th Great grandfather in North Carolina in the 1760’s to my Dad at Pearl Harbor, you can’t touch me with your whiny crackles of false bravado.
I fart in your general direction.
Oh Chris, I would have kicked your ass man. Grow up. My family tree fought in all the wars since they started in the 1700’s so you have nothing on me or anyone else. I put you in the same class as John Kerry who trashed his fellow soldiers in a Senate hearing many years ago (claiming he was a patriot). Now I am too old to fight with my fists so I defeat you with my words while showing the world your folly. Patriotism is supporting one’s country, not always trashing it as you do.
BenE, I do not claim to be any more important than anyone else. The reason you all are scared of me and claim I am is I am just a simple man of the people.
Sorry Todd, but like most of us who went to school with you, you are remembered as a pretty boy who couldn’t fight off a wet piece of toilet paper. Funny how the mind plays games, and now you remember yourself as some raging bull of a man. Too funny. Had your and my forefathers been so light in their loafers, we would surely have been conquered long ago.
And as far as you being “a man of the people”, you might want to rethink that old campaign slogan. Of all of us here; you’re the only career POLITICIAN, and one with a reputation of profit over people, I might add. So please, save us the “political viewpoint” of an aging sell-out. You have no idea what the “people” are going through today.
ChrisP, I don’t recall ever knowing you in school. Were you one of those people we made fun of in the shower after PE? You are simply a bloviator and an ingrate to your country. Maybe once you had a clue about the place but you have traveled into a strange land. No one cares ChrisP, apparently not even you.
I was elected twice and that was it. No public office after that. Unlike your pals Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, I was a temporary official Duly elected by the people here and without a contribution higher than a $100. So, yes, I am a man of the people unlike those that chatter it up on the sidelines all their lives and fear to put their beliefs out there for scrutiny and a vote. Too funny. You libs crack me up. If our forefathers were as you are, we would be speaking German. LOL!
OK, enough of the pissing contest.
But I do want to thank you for the compliment. Being compared to the young John Kerry is an honor. (The older, career politician sucks.) Being an ex-Navy combat boat coxswain, I appreciate you putting me up in his company. I understand the need of the swift-boat jerks to attack him in an election, and to try and make his efforts to stop an insane war of no purpose seem as though he was actually bashing his brothers-in-arms, but those of us who know what he went through, and what he later tried to do, have the utmost respect for the man.
So, thanks again, Todd, for the compliment. I just hope you’re not one of those who found a way out of serving, and years later, decided to trash those who went. THAT would be very UNpatriotic.
Let’s all back off a bit before the name-calling gets too personal. When it gets to the point of where we are debating whether ‘my grandpa can beat up your grandpa’ I believe we are stretching the bounds of the hypothetical. (Even if my grandpa could whip both of yours while hogtying a grizzly bear and eating an ice cream cone with both hands tied behind his back.)
You are right RL, your gramps could probably beat mine. Of course my mom was a orphan so it might be hard to find him.
Regarding John Kerry, the Swiftboaers told the truth about him and he is a crappy person. Even up to parking his yacht, paid for by his rich wife, in Rhode Island to dodge the taxes of his home state. Yep, ChrisP, you can respect that man? It shows everyone how misguidd you and your ilk truly are.
I’ll go with my experience, the Congressional record, and the Dept. of Defense on Kerry.
You, of course, are free to believe a group of political hacks in an election year.
Ain’t it funny how the most opinionated, self-proclaimed patriots who are pro-war are those who ain’t never been? May you someday experience first-hand what you so flippantly ask others to do in your stead.
So far, Bob, I have refrained from name-calling, but I will cross that line this one time to call Todd a chickenhawk. My apologies for such harsh language. (It actually is the worst epithet I can think of to be labeled.) And I may get sarcastic here and there, but I assure you that I don’t take any of this banter the least bit seriously. Our words here are just a fart in the wind; meaning little and changing even less.
Ya’ got me there. The pressure of commenting on an old friend’s blog is stifling. Bwahaahaa!
If you could draw half as good as Bob, you could have your own toon. I’d read it religiously.
You know, when I got back from overseas, I took a page from George Washington’s book, and had a dove with an olive branch tattooed on my shoulder, (His was a weather vane, after the Revolutionary war.) So. I’m not afraid to say, once again,
Peace be with you, brother. May all your days be as combat free as your past.
ChrisP, I have always thanked the veterans for their service. You petty attacks on those of us that did not serve in the military are too funny. Unlike you, my dad served in WW2 and never whined about his service or used it to denigrate anyone who did not. You are about as tall as my dad’s big toe. Too funny.
It also doesn’t shut me up in the debating of policies, and ideas. That has been tried by much better debaters than you. But, I will leave you to your childish pettiness and simply call you a liberal. You people are so predictable.
That wasn’t a dig on you, Todd. I was genuinely wishing you peace in your life.
Good bye Todd.
BTW, the father of Godzilla, Ichiro Honda, did a similar film named War of the Gargantuas… one tv guide summarized it in one sentence: “Two monsters eat Tokyo for lunch”. Might be an even better banner for Warshington at the moment except for the fact no one wrote a great song to poke fun at it.
It is sad that one can no longer put a guy or two in a rubber monster suit, make a cheezy model of Tokyo for monster frolic and make a major motion picture. A simpler time.
“It is sad that one can no longer put a guy or two in a rubber monster suit, make a cheezy model of Tokyo for monster frolic and make a major motion picture. A simpler time.”
Sounds like a teabagger republican to me. lol
What gets me the most is the press trying to triangulate truth as being some moving target somewhere between two widening factions. Statements are only vetted to show they were actually made, not whether or not it’s plain BS or not. You’d think that a Congressman berating a park ranger for closing a park, when he voted to do so himself, would be, at the least, fodder for comedy shows, but it’s viewed as just his opinion, and treated as part of an overall discussion on the matter. Ridiculous.
I’m not about to let Demobomula off the hook in this battle. In the original Godzilla, the monster was awakened by nuclear tests in the Pacific, and his power is increased by absorbing radiation. Demobomula gets his power by absorbing money, and he is insatiable. There will never be enough to subdue his appetite for ambitious programs. Eventually, he’ll become so big he’ll blot out the sun.
On the other clawed hand, GOPzilla will just destroy everything in its path and hope that private enterprise will come along to pick up the pieces. And have you noticed that Mitch McConnell looks an awful lot like Gamera, the giant flying turtle?
Gamera. I love it! All due apologies to Master Goodnight- LOL!!
No argument from me. Want to see Demobomula’s lust for money? Read up on the secret TTP treaty. He’s not even letting Congress see it, AND IT’S THEIR JOB!!
By the way, I’ve seen Mr. Goodnight say, “I’m not a republican” more times than I’ve seen reruns of Tricky Dick saying, “I am not a crook.” Wassup wid dat?
It’s because people whose leftwing politics inhabits only one dimension can no more imagine an opposing view that isn’t GOP than a citizen of Flatland can look up.
A Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy entry claimed the only reason the heathen bunch in the higher dimensions hadn’t been wiped out is that no one had been able to figure out how to launch a rocket at right angles to reality, and that pretty much says it all.
Well, if you truly wish to speak on a multi-dimensional level, shouldn’t you acknowledge that within the sphere of influence that really decides our fate, there is neither left or right wing; there is simply power and profit?
Left and right is merely a tool to control the masses and raise campaign funds for those who give the illusion of liberty in an otherwise controlled state. We are all just cheering on teams as a diversion while the guy who owns the ball park takes home the beer money and price of admission.
Going to every game and claiming that you are not on one particular side, over and over, seems pointless.
No, CP, it isn’t just “power and profit” and I can’t force you to see past horserace, ballgame or boxing paradigms.
Pew just can’t get past the one dimension of yours, but at least they will show you one dimension in total, and separately by economics and social leanings: I am at the same time a liberal republican, a liberal democrat and a conservative republican.
In truth, I’ve not changed my political philosophy significantly since I lightly held my nose and voted for George McGovern.
If Pew put those two results at right angles to each other, there would be a Nolan Chart.
In short, CP, let the partisan BS go. No, I’m not in your tribe and never will be short of some unforeseeable future stroke or dementia, but I’m also not in the tribe you hate so stop trying to hang that label on me.
You’re right-on about the media trying to triangulate the truth.
This sacred obligation to get both sides of the story has limited utility and is the lazy man’s approach to reporting. During my 10 years in the news biz, I always maintained it is the reporter’s obligation to ascertain the facts and get as close to the truth as he or see can. That always drew a lot of blank stares from editors.
“Sounds like a teabagger republican to me. lol”
Sounds like a partisan Democrat who name calls and makes stuff up to me, and no, no “lol”. Being pro-choice on virtually everything, I’ve never been a Republican and I never identified or even particularly sympathized with any Tea Party group.
From the WashingtonTimes, on the closing of parks:
“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”
No, the GOP didn’t vote to do that. The Executive branch could have just as easily directed the Park Service to not interfere with citizens walking on park land.
Wisconsin’s Scott Walker is keeping his parks open since they supply some of the dough. Obama won’t let Jan Brewer of Arizona keep the Grand Canyon gates open even though she said her state would pay the bills. So, what we have is an out of control Executive.
Todd, this is how politics work. Ted Cruz knew this going in, and did it anyway. Stupid.
So you and your pals who whine about the stuffy status quo have your panties in a wad because some politicians break the status quo. Typical spoiled brats liberals.
No, we’re upset because good people who work hard have no paychecks due to a bad strategy decision. And we intend to hold those bad strategists accountable. Not complicated.
Who is not getting a paycheck? Give us a list. Seems to me the country is doing just fine’
Let’s see now, Todd.
Who’s inspecting your produce and meat right now to make sure you don’t eat poison?
How many civilians were furloughed from the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, and other defense systems? 400K
Who’s monitoring diseases at the CDC to track them in case there’s an epidemic starting, or figure out what type of flue is killing our elderly and young, or tracking salmonella outbreaks? No one.
Where’s NOAA? Gone home.
The list goes on and on, but hey everybody, Todd’s alright!
83% of the Federal government remains working during the “shutdown”.
I think you need to study up on who the missing people are and what they do, Greg. Afterall, Congress is still getting paid. Does THAT make you feel better?
I guess your not planning a cruise anytime soon, because then you might have to worry about who’s maintaining our maritime navigational aids. Oops, gone home.
Maritime navigational aids at risk? Oh, my.
I think you’ll find ships mostly use GPS like everyone else, and, just for fun I ran a standard FAA briefing for an instrument flight from Grass Valley to San Jose Int’l, and all is online.
The world will survive a week or two furlough of 17% of Federal employees, the non-essential ones, or at least some of them. Plenty of time for all to decide negotiation is OK. And, believe it or not, the Congress is doing their job; there’s a long history of them deciding not to fund things they don’t like. Even Harry Reid tried to do it during the Bush II years.
It wasn’t until the 80’s did actual federal workers stop working. They would be retro paid once the stalemate between legislative and executive were ironed out.
It wasn’t until the 90’s did federal workers actual lose pay and hurt the US economy to any real extent since the “shut downs” took place on off days for most federal employed offices. The Newt 95/96′ shut downs effected the economy by billions.
The unique reasoning for this shut down it is the first time it has been done over a social policy law. It also comes at a time when the Republican Party has done everything outside of shutting down the government to slow down the economy and make Obama a lame duck President by absolute obstructionism by the abuse of the filibuster rule in the Senate. Over 370 times in the 6 years Harry Reid has been majority leader have the Republicans filibuster or threatened to filibuster important legislation. This obstruction is unprecedented and disgusting.
I say it all the time the only thing that matches my disgust with the Republican Party leadership is my disappointment in the Democratic Party leadership.
Absolutely correct; many times in our past Congress has held up the train due to negotiations, but in every instance in the past, it was germane to the budget itself. This time, it’s about a law that was passed in the House, approved by the Senate, signed by the President, challenged and upheld by a conservative Supreme Court, and has nothing to do with current fiscal negotiations. That makes this particular government shut down singularly different from any of the past.
And pray tell, other than informing us that you have a pilot’s license, what does the FAA have to do with maritime navigation? Or the fact that you can’t get a passport right now? Or that your meat and produce is not being inspected? Or that work on cleaning up all the toxic sites in the country have stopped? Or that mine safety inspectors are absent? Or that the CDC isn’t monitoring outbreaks of disease? Or that 400,000 civilian workers at the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, and other defense functions are no longer watching our backs?
And all this because 63 of the most radical people in government have decided that they don’t like the law of the land? It’s bullshit.
Those 63 liberal are truly a bunch of BS filled politicians. What does the ACA have to do with the budget? Well, it is now been taken over by the federal government, is 1/6 of the US economy, has many billions spent and raised already and is required to be funded as part of the budget. What about that are you having a hard time with? You people whine when the budget is passed in one chunk, you whine when it is now split out into 13 pieces you whine because you want it hidden in the CR process. You just can’t be taken seriously.
The Tea Party on the other hand pretty much defeated your ilk all over America all the way down to dog catcher becasue of the budget overruns. I would say the Tea Party is trying to save America from fiscal destruction. What are you and your pals doing about that?
“Absolutely correct; many times in our past Congress has held up the train due to negotiations, but in every instance in the past, it was germane to the budget itself.”
Hardly. Tip O’Neill did it once over the Fairness Doctrine, which the FCC had decided to retire.
Really, CP, try to get past the Democratic Party talking points. Abandon one dimensional thinking, add a dimension or two.
Meat is being inspected, ships are navigating.
In short, the sky is not falling.
Aside from the fact that the 63 are republicans, not liberals, you clearly do not have a clue about where the ACA gets it’s funding THIS YEAR, which is what the debate is over.
C’mon Todd, get with the program; you obviously are working under the false information, or no information at all. (I’m not the least surprised.)
It appears you have no idea of what the ACA is or anything about it ChrisP. Seems to me the Supremes justified the ACA as Constitutional because of a TAX. Now, if there is some other entity collecting the TAX, please tell us all. You have no clue.
My lib comment was in response to your fallacy that a small faction of people in the House are making you all cry.
Greg wrote: “Hardly. Tip O’Neill did it once over the Fairness Doctrine, which the FCC had decided to retire.”
Was the Fairness Doctrine a piece of legislation that was passed by both the House and Senate, signed by the President of the United States, challenged via the court system by the states, and eventually upheld by the Supreme Court?
No, it was not. That’s the entire point here. That’s why there should be absolutely no negotiation. These 63 un-American bullies need to be severely punished in the court of public opinion for disrespecting the US Constitution. Nothing less than complete humiliation and total abdication of their position is necessary to teach them a harsh lesson that pissing on our founding documents will not be tolerated.
You have it exactly backwards as usual. These 63 are the true Americans, the democrats are something else. The left will be severely punished by the voters come next year. It will be a fine sight to behold, just like 2010 when America turned out 63 libs and put in real Americans.
Todd, your prognostication record precedes you. “Romney by 7%,” remember?
You live in a dream world. It’s nice and comfy up here in Nevada County, and you have a hard time understanding where the power resides in America, and how it is structured. At least that is how it appears to me.
If you read more, and bloviated less, you would be taken a lot more seriously.
“Nothing less than complete humiliation and total abdication of their position is necessary to teach them a harsh lesson that pissing on our founding documents will not be tolerated.”
Wow, scratch Michael Anderson and that caped crusader mandersonation is still there. No, the PPACA isn’t a founding document, and there is nothing in the Constitution that requires the Congress to fund an authorized program.
“Complete humiliation” is not a formula for success in a free society. That’s Big Brother territory.
Here we go, Mike:
“Ironically, Harry Reid was the one Democratic leader to briefly support defunding the war. Despite calling the “defund Obamacare” movement “irresponsible and futile” and labeling Republicans in support of defunding Obamacare “anarchists” who need to “get a life,” in April 2007 Reid introduced a similar bill aimed at ending funding for the Iraq War within a year.
That bill went nowhere, but the majority leader’s accompanying comment that the Iraq War was already “lost” haunted him for years afterward.
So MichaelA, why are you and PaulE so hung up on my predictions? You won I lost, but for some reason you libs can’t let go. Just like racism, you think the past is still here today. I have moved on, you need too as well for your own mental well being (if possible).
“You live in a dream world. It’s nice and comfy up here in Nevada County, and you have a hard time understanding where the power resides in America, and how it is structured. At least that is how it appears to me.”
Golly, I though I did you a favor by keeping the county a rural lovely place? You benefited from me and my fellow county resientsa. And now you complain.
Regarding politics. Seems to me I beat two liberals for office and have supported most of our representatives to the State and Federal levels. You and your ilk get your ass kicked every time supporting nuts like BenE and the fellow from Florida. I think I have a lot more experience in politics and you are just lucky enough to be in a free country where you can claim you do. We know the truth.
Did Harry’s attempt to defund the Iraq War involve shutting down the government?
What shutdown? Only 17% of the Federal employees have been told to stay home and even they’ve been promised they’ll not take a pay hit.
It remains that there is nothing unconstitutional about Congress not appropriating money for programs passed by previous Congresses. In fact, I suspect it’s the main vehicle for putting wooden stakes through the heart of the undead in Washington.
The rhetoric needs to be ratcheted down. Boehner isn’t a terrorist, and politics based on a need to humiliate political opponents is a proximate cause of the problems of Washington in the first place.
Good gawd Greg! Seriously?
I should send that one in to snopes.com. I’m sure they’d get a kick out of it.
I’m talking about your claim that park rangers have been told to make things as difficult as possible for people.
Was that a joke and I missed it?
Here you go, CP:
“We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can”
Making things as difficult as possible sounds about right. The voting base of the Democratic Party want the Democrats to act more like the Republicans with the politicizing of every event such as the mass shootings. I find it disgusting.
If they would just run on their ideas they would win in landslides in my opinion but the leadership of both parties controls what exits committees, messaging, and allocation of funds/ dnc- rnc organizing help in campaigns.
We are all pawns in their game for who can wrestle majority status increasing their net value as individuals and political parties.
Ben, get a grip. The “difficult as possible” was a claimed order to a National Park Ranger directed to hassle patrons of the people’s parks and monuments. Pure Petty Politics against regular folk.
I think that’s Chicago-style politics at its worst.
I am so tired of this bs at every level. The Sociopath’s vs. The Gutless. I have no more patience to defend either party while average Americans are suffering. People are hurting big time and all they can do is to strategize on how to squeeze out a couple more votes by exploiting and manipulating the hopes of the American people to have a political party actually govern the best interest of the US as a whole.
Of course you are right, Ben. But here we are.
Are you willing to let the extreme wing of the Republican Party win yet another of these tawdry battles? I am not.
As a 5th generation conservative and Republican, I would like to see the fascist wing snuffed out. I think we have to go “all in” to make it happen.
This is the battleground in which we have been presented. This is where we will make our mark.
Greg, you can twist and spin all you like, but if you support “negotiations must happen before we get a CR or raise the debt ceiling,” you are not on my team.
I want the Democratic Party to fight but at the issue level where they would destroy the Republican Party. Not this petty exploitation crap.
Tell the American people who the Republican Party openly and unabashedly represent. Bernie Sanders is a perfect example. In 2004 or 2000 George W Bush would win regions by 20% and Bernie Sanders would win by 25% in the same region.
Issue politics is what people want not strong political theater. The media loves and covers the theater.
The sad fact I believe to be true the Democratic Party is so deeply beholden to many of the same interests the Republicans eagerly represent so they fear speaking strongly on behalf of the people in fear of pissing off those huge industries and their political backing.
Increasingly in the last 3 years political parties and lobbyists have become less important for big industry and we will see less invested in those areas and more invested directly to candidates. Billionaire/ Industry endorsed candidates.
I get all that. But you need a vehicle.
Four tires and a motor to move you forward. In this system, the Democratic Party is the best wedge to fix the Republican Party. We are in an “all hands on deck” situation right now. We are in a soft war. I do not want to get into a hard war. The potential is there, however.
Eventually this country will achieve a more parliamentary system, under the Constitution. Of that I am totally convinced. The John Birch types will die off (that is the only way we will be rid of them, and thankfully they are not creating new infestations), and GenX and GenY will take over with a much more egalitarian approach.
The Cold War will be dead, the hippie vs. Todd Juvinall-types will die off as well, and the American Planet will present in some wonderful Spring (maybe as soon as 2022?) a whole new world.
So, in the soft war, you have to prevent the hard war. That takes guts and strength. We have a limited amount of time.
This is a war of attrition. Hold them off as long as you can, that is the best strategy. Just keep feinting capitulation, then crush. Bury the enemy bodies quietly. No body counts; Huntley-Brinkley was a mistake.
For a fifth generation Republican (what a lie) you sure are a lover in left field. You two are losing the fight for truth, justice and the American way. Go back under your rocks. Too funny.
I get that strategy because we have been watching it unfold for 20 years and in the mean time we are really struggling as a nation at the main st level.
Hold them off long enough for what, a peoples party that resembles the political right from the 1960’s? Then what fills in that vacuum from the ashes of the Republicans? This is my biggest fear is that we remove the extreme right and we are left with the center right party standing. I seriously doubt the move dramatically left unless they fully support radical electoral and campaign reform.
I foresee a more bio regional economy emerging as the energy and banking industries collapse in on themselves. If that is in this decade or next I don’t know but a continual slide down will be our fate unless the people rise up and demand the radical reforms I mentioned above, which would be the ultimate scenario.
Good stuff Ben, I like your scenarios. But I really do think it will be day-to-day. Who knows where this will all lead. The main thing is to dis-enfranchise the Todd Juvinall wing. Kind of like what happened to the Neanderthals. A nice group, but not sustainable.
We are definitely on the same page with the extinction of the fundamentalist hostage taking faction of the Republican Party. If they get their way they will become victims to there own ideology.
Kind of like the Bolsheviks on the opposite end at the turn of the 20th Century in Russia.
Good analogy, Ben.
And so we plod on. Step by step. Inch by inch.
CP, no response to the link you requested? Yes, a Park Ranger was quoted as saying (in effect) he was directed to maximally piss people off.
It doesn’t appear to be working in their favor, as Obama’s popularity continues to slide; by Gallup, now 44/51, approve/disapprove
Regarding the Ben and Mikey banter… are you guys the Nevada County People’s Front, or the People’s Front of Nevada County?
Sorry for the delay, Greg, but I’ve got a life outside of this blog. (I’m only semi-retired.)
But yeah, I’ve seen the story. It’s on every right wing nuts blog from here to Selma. I’ve seen many stories, like the one you offered, where supposedly an unnamed park ranger told this to an undisclosed source, who then gave it to the Times, whhich was then subsequently quoted to examiner.com, which oddly enough, has absolutely nothing to do with the newspaper by the same name.
For someone who claims to be informed and knowledgeable about the goings-on of both sides of the aisle, (and who has absolutely no connection to anything republican, at any time), you sure are a gullible guy to think that the President of the United States would issue an order for park rangers to harass citizens during such a political fight.
My opinion of your political insight just dropped to a 3 out of a possible 10. Fail.
I did, however, enjoy the comedic relief of reading some of the other stories below that one on the site, like, “Liberalism-the genocidal hate and rage”, or “The left’s answer to the shutdown-Kill them all.” Funny stuff, unless you live in a trailer park in S. Carolina and have a third grade education.
Again, sorry. I thought this kinda’ crap was beneath you. Won’t make that mistake again.
Greg asked: “Regarding the Ben and Mikey banter…are you guys the Nevada County People’s Front, or the People’s Front of Nevada County?”
Ahh, a sweet subtle commie reference. Nicely done, Greg.
But seriously, if we were to add you to our group, Ben and I would be the only two who actually get up and go to work every morning.
“you sure are a gullible guy to think that the President of the United States would issue an order for park rangers to harass citizens during such a political fight” -CP
Who said it was an Obama order? History is full of political appointees taking a general order and running with it. So, CP, all the reports are right wing lies? Got it. Except that it wasn’t an anonymous source for the quote, it was reported by a Wesley Pruden of the Washington Times, not a paper I would buy but it is a real paper, it was hotlinked from the Examiner.com page I provided, and there have been a number of stories all portraying something that really does appear to be the Park Service going out of their way to be pains in the ass. If the Washtington Times has had documented instances of making up quotes, please share.
If that’s all a right wing conspiracy I’m sure the NY Times will cover it. Or the Post. If they ignore it, it probably does mean the Park Service quote was accurate.
Mike A, it was a Monty Python reference. And a particularly funny one at that.
For a couple of guys who claim to be “independent” you sure are willing to give the Obama gang the benefit of every doubt. How about the fiasco at Mt. Vernon, where the feds (who don’t even run the place) suddenly moved in and forcibly shut the site down? Or clearing the deck at the Lincoln Memorial, which usually doesn’t have any ranger presence? Or blocking off the off-park overlook at Mt. Rushmore? They can’t ALL be lying, can they? Do you still believe that Clinton never had sex with that woman?
I’m not making apologies for the right, but I have no illusions about the motives and tactics of the left.
I do not give Obama the benefit of every doubt. He’s just as bad as the rest of the shady characters up there. His neww TTP treaty alone should make the most ardent Obama fans shudder.
But this whole effort to put the shut down on his doorstep is BS. The Senate passed a bill last week that would fund the government at the level the republicans asked for, which is sitting on Boehner’s desk. By anyone’s count, the votes are there to pass it in the House. So, I put all of this feigned outrage right where it belongs, partisan BS notwithstanding.
Did Clinton get a BJ from Lewinsky? Yeah. Big deal. Almost every President has had his Monica. I don’t remember anyone suffering for the money shot. (Except maybe Newt, who married the staffer he was doing at the time.)
And are parks being closed? Also yeah. But I’m thinking it’s SOP, not a special secret order from the President. He probably has the power to stop such things, which is political theater not to, and would be political theater if he did.
As an independent; when you throw it all in the air, and let the wind take away the chaff, it’s Boehner who’s holding things up, not the President. At least from the standpoint of someone who’s looking merely at the system and how it works, and not the BS flying around to assign blame for political gain.
RL, you have nailed these two right on the mark. While they claim to be indies they are never critical about the liberal democrats and their strategies. We can see that in the above post by CP. While claiming no bias they criticize everything Republican very vociferously and soft shoe the democrats. The R’s passed a budget in the House every year and Harry Reid would not let it be voted on for five years. Crickets from the left. The Parks are now the most visible department (;ole what they do with local fire and police) and are being directed from above. Obama is in charge of the Executive branch and these are part of the branch. So, the crap always rises to the top but unlike the screaming against Bush these liberals are dodging the blame of their ilk. That is why America is finally understanding the people with the phony outrage are just too transparent.
I am a conservative and proud of it. Sure they make stupid mistakes as well but at least we claim responsibility.
So once again, as is your usual Todd, you attack me and others with a different viewpoint rather than discuss the issue. Put all political BS aside for just a moment and answer these few questions:
Who caused this shut down, the House or the President?
Is there a bill in the Speaker of the House’s hands that calls for spending at the level the republicans asked for?
Are there the votes in the House to pass such a bill into law?
No politics. No personal attacks. Just pure parliamentary procedure.
I think Obama is a sell-out. The TTP is crap. The ACA is crap. Drone strikes in sovereign countries is crap. Not holding to his campaign promises is crap. The Fed, under his direction, is crap. The VA, nder Shinseki, is crap. His energy plan is crap.
I could go on, but I think you, possibly, get the point. I’m an independent, and proud of it. I don’t support any of these monkeys, I don’t watch Fox, or MSMBC, or even network news. I don’t subscribe to conservative blogs or liberal blogs. I try to make up my own mind based on my experience that both sides are corrupt.
I consider myself a patriot, but I don’t say you’re not one just because you don’t agree with me. (A BIG difference between us.) And I see it as my civic duty to oppose anyone who’s actions, in my eyes, hurts this country. If you’ve got a problem with that, I just don’t care. That’s your hang up, not mine.
I know it’s become unAmerican, and even possibly unChristian, to say this but,
No one believes a person when they speak one way for so long and then claim another under pressure.
I don’t how or where you would think I give Obama a pass on anything. I believe him to be a war criminal who should be impeached for violations to the US Constitution and international law.
You want to know something funny this part of the thread Greg posted a link and I agreed. It is a bunch of bs how the D’s and R’s manipulate the people to garner support or to fear the other in every situation where average Americans are suffering.
Mass Shooting D’s are out in forces trying to put more regulations on guns instead of actually trying to figure out the cause of why that person used the guns to kill so many people.
Muslims are the new Communists for the Republican Party and the amount of big government of authoritarian and oppressive policies that have resulted is astonishing to say the least.
Fear the gun. Fear the Muslim. Fear the other major political party is all we are sold 365 days a year.
Here is one of my favorite paragraphs I wrote during 10′ campaign. It holds true today just as much it does for my entire life.
“Nothing in our Constitution addresses political parties or partisanship. However, over the past 30 years, political parties have presented partisanship as the only operating paradigm. Our government has become less representative because that’s what BOTH parties want. They fight for campaign dollars instead of votes, then use those dollars to manipulate opinion in an effort to frighten voters to take their side. This was not what the founders envisioned for our grand republic.”
Jefferson, in particular, but not by any means alone, was against the “faction” that a party system creates.
I will disagree with your depiction that it is mostly republicans who fear the Muslim man or that most Dems are for gun control. I know that no one’s taking mine.
Do you know Ted Rall?
I have several of his books, but we have never met.
Here are some of the untrue rumors that circulated during the “shots fired” incident in DC: Shooter is a Tea Party member whose health care premiums went up, Shooter is a member of Al Qaeda whose health coverage was cancelled for work-related reasons, Shooter is Miley Cyrus.
Shooter was not Miley Cyrus. It was Octomom. I have that from reliable sources.
Despite what we’ve been told, or rather told what to think, this is clearly the best time to be alive in the history of mankind. And despite what we hear, it keeps getting better every day. This is not hippie reasoning, this is a fact. Everything is amazing, and nobody’s happy.
But then again some people like to feel bad or scared, and feel better when others are feeling worse:
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in
You won’t be so happy when the giant hornets arrive!
Will the real version have that ominous soundtrack playing in the background?
[We now cut to Ryan in his backyard, weeding away at the Scotch broom]
Ryan: [thinking to himself]: “Why is there an ominous soundtrack emanating from my shed? I’ll give it a look.”
[Wanders over to his Sears metal shed and slowly opens the rusty doors]
Ryan: Oh. My. God! I should have paid heed to the music! Hornets! Why?!! Why does it have to end this waaaaaayyyyyy-eeeee-ugh?!
[as he lies on the ground, stung nearly to death. He laments that he couldn’t take the world down with credit default swaps and mortgage-backed security algorithms.]
[fade to black]
Ryan [whispering]: The horror. The horror.
[Cue: What a Wonderful World. Camera pulls back to reveal black helicopters descending on Grass Valley.]
We need people and hornet detente.
There are always solutions to these threats. When the Japanese were invaded by the monster, Mothra, Toyota and Nissan combined their efforts to construct a massive nuclear-powered windshield, which was launched over Tokyo at supersonic speed. You can guess what happened when the two collided…SPLAT!!!…Moth problem solved, except for a messy clean up.
American ingenuity will take care of any hornet invasion, as well. Just fill Candlestick (Monster) Park with soapy water and hang four hundred pounds of hamburger over the middle. The hornets will tear off a chunk and drop into the water, where they will drown. Works every time with the meat bees.
Foothills folk should be put in charge of solving everything. I’m convinced of it.
There’s no end to the terror…Board up the windows!
Here’s something really terrifying. At least for a teenager: a sink full of dishes.
Ryan and RL, great comedy in the morning exchange. Just getting caught up. Thanks.
Speaking of comedy, and trying to get back on subject, I just loved hearing on the radio today while I was driving my kids to their 7th harvest festival so far this fall season, that Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul discussing the shutdown strategy was caught by a hot mic. Delicious.
“I just did CNN and I just go over and over again ‘We’re willing to compromise. We’re willing to negotiate.’ I think… I don’t think they poll tested ‘we won’t negotiate.’ I think it’s awful for [Democrats] to say that over and over again,” Paul said.
“Yeah, I do too and I, and I just came back from that two hour meeting with them and that, and that was basically the same view privately as it was publicly,” McConnell agreed.
Paul added, “I think if we keep saying, ‘We wanted to defund it. We fought for that and that we’re willing to compromise on this’, I think they can’t, we’re gonna, I think…well, I know we don’t want to be here, but we’re gonna win this, I think.”
I highlighted Paul’s last words because those were my favorite. Both McConnell and Paul are acknowledging that they failed in their original goal of defunding PPACA, which was a fool’s errand, and now they are grasping at straws to come up with some sort of “compromise” in order to save face. Tonight on the NewsHour, Brooks called the Tea Party a rump party, which I found interesting since that usually refers to the remnants of a breakaway group that has gone back to the mainstream. The Tea Party is the breakaway group, and they are still breaking. Not sure how you can call them rump. I think this was a subtle attempt by Brooks, who certainly enjoys his insider status (perhaps a bit too much), to massage the coming message re-direction from the mainstream Republican party that “now we will vote for a CR if we get a certain number of goodies in our basket.”
Someone should tell the Republican messaging machine that Halloween is still 26 days away, and that hauling out goodie baskets (also plastic pumpkins, pillow cases, plastic kitchen garbage bags, and 5-gallon cowboy hats) and making the neighborhood rounds is a pretty tawdry business when no one has any candy in their bowls.
Just amazingly bad chess moves on the part of the Republicans, both wings. I am not a Democrat by any way, shape, or form. But I certainly am clapping at their superior play, just as I would when the Dodgers beat the Braves.
This is not funny, Michael. At all. Not even one chuckle. So I had to image Mitch McConnell standing naked, singing Ethel Merman songs on the Capitol steps. We were trying to keep this lighthearted. Please add your own hornet story. If you must, you can change insects to yellow jackets. If insects are not your thing (don’t lie, you love Kafka…I know you do), then say something derogatory about your children.
The current round of Congressional and Executive idiocracy is specifically around two items, which was discussed on another familiar blog:
1) Removing (or delaying, it’s unclear which one is on the table right now) the individual mandate to buy insurance
2) removing the tax on medical devices, which is interesting supported by Al Franken and Liz Warren.
“Defunding” “Obamacare” is propoganda. It means nothing in practice. What matters is, specifics. Removing the medical device tax probably will not have a fiscal impact. However removing the individual mandate is a very big deal, which would greatly impact the plan.
And BTW, this off the mic thing is not a big deal. It’s certainly not new news. Rand Paul was on the record prior to this partial shutdown saying he thought the PPACA was a forgone conclusion. Mitch McConnell is dorkier than Harry Reid, if that’s possible. He rarely makes sense.
What this off the mic thing tells us, more importantly, is how the Tea Party Senators and Representatives are controlling the agenda of the Republican Party. So when the lower 50% asks REALLY dumb questions with tears in their eyes like, “How can a small group of Tea Party Representatives get their way!??[whaaaaa]”, we have our answer: they’re not. This is mainstream Republican ideology. The Republican elites are using[allowing] the Tea Partier to drive the agenda. The cowardly elites, like dickhead McConnell (who is up for election), doesn’t have to throw the stones.
HuffPo is running with poll results showing the country evenly split between blaming Republicans and blaming Democrats for the shutdown. In other words, in line with RL’s toon in TheUnion today, and not inline with TheUnion’s editorial staff (not to mention the likes of Michael Anderson) who blame it all on Republicans.
“I won’t negotiate” isn’t a great negotiation tactic, and unlike the Gingrich/Clinton impasses, there’s a WWW to finger the petty BS like the WWII Memorial lockout and even closing National cemeteries to families visiting gravesites. Now there’s the IwoJima memorial, retaken by octogenarian vets whose flew in on an Honor Flight and ignored the barriers.
“The stop is a popular destination for veterans and tourists alike, and, in my observation, is usually completely unmanned and unguarded. But, for some reason, it’s closed to the public during this federal government shutdown.”
Petty BS isn’t a way to win friends and influence people.
Here are some articles about billionaires influence over common America.
The Koch Club
Koch millions spread influence through nonprofits, colleges
The billionaire brothers who are waging a war against Obama.
Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?printable=true#ixzz2h3c7s2Y6
“Five hundred people attended the summit, which served, in part, as a training session for Tea Party activists in Texas. An advertisement cast the event as a populist uprising against vested corporate power. “Today, the voices of average Americans are being drowned out by lobbyists and special interests,” it said. “But you can do something about it.” The pitch made no mention of its corporate funders. The White House has expressed frustration that such sponsors have largely eluded public notice. David Axelrod, Obama’s senior adviser, said, “What they don’t say is that, in part, this is a grassroots citizens’ movement brought to you by a bunch of oil billionaires.”
Here is a clip from inside the beltway from the longest sitting independent in US history.
“Sen. Sanders put the blame for the government shutdown square on the Koch Brothers, “Let’s not kid ourselves. This shutdown is not something that just came about a couple of weeks ago through Ted Cruz. This has been planned by the Koch brothers and other very, very wealthy people from the day after Obama was reelected, and what their feeling is. Let us go to the extreme. Let us be prepared to shutdown the government, not pay the national debt. Let us use every ounce of leverage that we have. Even if it means catastrophic pain for America and the world, so long as we get our way.”
Later Sanders discussed the Koch brothers’ agenda, “If you look at what the Koch brothers agenda is. Look at what many of the extreme right wing people believe. Obamacare is just the tip of the iceberg. These people want to abolish the concept of the minimum wage. They want to privatize the Veterans Administration. They want to privatize Social Security, end Medicare as we know it, massive cuts in Medicaid, wipe out the EPA. You don’t have an Environmental Protection Agency anymore. Department of Energy, gone. Department of Education, gone. That is their agenda, and many people don’t understand it. Koch brothers have poured hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars into the tea party, and to all other kinds of ancillary organizations to push this agenda. So what you are finding now is a continuation of the class warfare that as been going on this country for the last many years. The rich are getting richer. Poverty, number of people in poverty all time high. Middle class disappearing, and these guys using Citizens United and other forms are now banging away and doing everything they can to get more tax breaks for the people on top, and devastating cuts for working families.”
The man is a declared leftwing socialist. This adoration confirms what we already knew about you BenE.
Wrong again, spunky. The man is a declared “democratic socialist”, and good for him.
Anything he said that you care to argue, or are you stating the obvious for your own amusement? I could tell you that he wore a red tie today, but that really doesn’t contribute to a meaningful discussion on the issue.
Actually Bernie Sanders is considered an “independent”. I think independent of the major two parties is what it means not part of the George Wallace racist American Independent Party. Yes he considers himself a democratic socialist as many do in the Nordic nations that seem to dominate the happiest citizens and best places to live in the world.
I love the explanation on why the US right wingers fear democratic socialism.
“The American right is afraid of democratic socialism, we suspect they’re either intellectually challenged or selfish rich people. “
He is a self proclaimed socialist BenE. Do some research and you will see the error of your comment. Tell us all how one socialist independent always votes democrat. Please explain.
When have I ever debated whether I am politically on the left or not? Personally I am about as conservative as you get. I will debate aggressively that I am not a Democrat but never have I debated that I am not on the political left. I am a civil libertarian first and foremost. I am a populist second. I am an aggressive progressive third. I am a decentralizationist fourth. I am a liberal fourth.
I guess when you don’t read anything written other than scanning for something to make a childish remark a person misses a bunch of information and content.
BenE, you are as confused about what your as a platypus. You left out Whig and Euro-Socialist in your self description. If anyone reads you they will agree you are the childish one. A persons core beliefs are reflected in their political beliefs BenE. You cannot be all and nothing at the same time. Wrong dimension.
Everybody’s world view is complex and to narrow it down to one position is intellectually dishonest. You are a party line Republican, which self censors much of your own complexities and that is why you are so hypocritical on so many issues. We all are hypocritical to a certain extent but my positions totally depend on the issue not from some political institution in a far off city that is corrupted six ways to Sunday by interests that go against those of the common American. That is why I dislike party line Democrats as well.
Keep fighting to be on the winning team and America as a whole will continue to lose.
Let me clarify what this means.
“Personally I am about as conservative as you get.”
In my personal life I am about as conservative as you get. My political views are securely in the left side of the political spectrum.
I, on the other hand, am a flaming liberal, out of pure frustration.
This country has been taken to a position of right center, starting with Reagan, and continuing through Clinton and the Bush boys. Unions, which were the only thing keeping us from serfdom at the hands of the wealthy, have systematically been decimated, by design. Wages are at an all-time low in comparison to goods produced, and there is a war on the poor and working class that has reached the breaking point.
My desire would have been that capitalism was held in check so that it benefited both capital AND labor, but the greed that always arises when not confronted is once again rearing it’s ugly head. A quick read of our not-so-distant past shows that people will only put up with that to a limit, and that point is fast approaching.
So yeah, color me a flaming liberal until the equality of our spoils comes back into line. And those who consider themselves “of the people” yet support those at the very top who are raking in the lionshare of our collective efforts are the enemies of the State.
And anyone who thinks Obama is a liberal is out of their mind.
Your are a confused and angry person. My goodness, every one is against you oh my!
I try to conserve energy, open spaces, clean air, clean water, anti materialistic, think political correctness has good intentions but has gone horribly wrong, anti military intervention, don’t like centralized banking or backless currency especially from unaccountable banks, believe the best policy is if you don’t have the cash you don’t make the purchase, love to fish and starting to get into bow hunting , don’t like being regulated by government, and the list can go on and on.
What makes me securely on the left is I understand that as a relatively healthy intelligent white male I am very privileged and not everybody has that privilege or access to the tools they might need to live a dignified comfortable life. We belong to a enclosed system and when disease or illness infects one party of the system it directly or indirectly affects us all.
Wow, what a terrible life you must lead. Hopefully you on’t infect too many with your views.
Living by ones convictions and principals is the most rewarding life of all.
Welcome to the merry-go-round, gang. It’s the same conversation that goes on, day after day in a thousand blogs from here to Kalamazoo. I’ll stick to my original post and posit that our elected representatives are nothing more than a pack of scoundrels, no matter which letter they wear after their name. It does impress me that they can lie with such conviction, but most of them have had years of practice. Probably the most honest ones are the Tea Party candidates the Repubbys have fielded since 2010. Vaginal probes, lock the queers in the closet, keep the riff raff out of the voting booth, build a wall around America. That’s why most of them weren’t elected.
With the Democrats, they hold on to the illusion that “things are getting better” and the economy is recovering, albeit at a snail’s pace. And that’s only because Uncle Ben Bernanke keeps the printing presses running full steam ahead…$85,ooo,ooo,ooo a month, with no end in sight. The national debt is only $17,000,000,000,000, and growing like the weeds in my backyard. Sure, we’ll grow our way out of it, as soon as the citizenry catches up with their new healthcare taxes, sales taxes, income taxes, cost-of-doing-business taxes that will mostly go to paying the pensions of govt. retirees. (I just read that the police chief of Oceanside, Ca., will retire with a $250,000 annual paycheck. I really should have gone into that line of work!)
If the people of this country ever come to their senses and boot these shitheads out of office, it will probably be way too late to fix things. I could be wrong. After all, I’m only the Village Idiot. What do I know?
What I do know is that while you all spent the afternoon trying to convince each other that the black plague is worse than ebola, and visa versa, I was sitting in a dark theatre with 3D glasses on watching Sandra Bullock float around in a void. It’s a fun movie, although the plot is preposterous. Kind of like reality. Running out of air fast.
Very funny post RL. I wish I had your talent.
Even though we disagree on tax issues we agree on the biggest problem that faces our nation, Democratic and Republican Institutions.
I second that.
It’s the chasm between socialism and libertarianism. I tend to vote for less government, even though I think the Libertarian party is too anti-government. You’ve stated on occasion that you would be happy to gut the rich with 70% rates, and confiscate their family wealth through inheritance taxes. Me, I’m satisfied with the tax hike the Dems passed last time around. Trying to make America into Sweden is like comparing apples and lutefisk. Our society will never work that way.
Sweden is doing just fine, but it’s not my ideal either. Like I said, all I want is the return of the balance between capital and labor that makes for a robust market and a comfortable middle class. I’m not a socialist, but I’m gonna’play one until the scale tips back.
It’s the same kind of characters that were the scourge of the late 1800’s and 1920’s; large corporations run by greedy bastards for whom enough is never enough. Labor unions and moral Presidents have put them back in their place in the past, but unions are dead and there hasn’t been a people’s President since Carter.
We need a President with some sack, like TR or FDR, not for social programs, but to return to Glass-Steagall and a host of more progressive and fair taxes that cut subsidies to those showing profit, and an inheritance tax that prevents dynasties. (When the inheritance tax was robust, wealthy families STILL remained wealthy. We have always demanded that each generation pay their own way.)
The scale of economic justice has once again tipped wildly in the favor of those who want more power and more wealth, and it’s slowly creeping into our government and usurping the will of the people. When a dollar is considered language, and a business model is considered a citizen, we have lost our voice as average citizens.
We are the proverbial frog in the heated pot, and I fear that we are reaching the boiling point. Question is; is there still the will to jump from the pot? I don’t see it, but that won’t stop ME from jumping. Hence: I’m now a radical socialist, until such time as the scale tips back.
And say what you want about Sweden, but the people still have control of their government, they still have their rich and poor, but their top is lower, their bottom is higher, and they enjoy just as much liberty as we do in a society where the standard of living is higher than ours and everyone has the security that their government is there for them if they should need it.
Do they apy much higher taxes? Yes, but EVERYBODY PAYS, and EVERYBODY enjoys the fruits of their collective labor. Like it or don’t; their system is working better than ours.
We are reliving the Gilded Age. Somehow people who don’t belong to the nobility class think the Gilded Age was a good time to be alive.
I guess Steinbeck said it best in a now outdated language.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires” – Steinbeck
“Man has become our greatest hazard and our greatest hope”- Steinbeck
We look at being poor in America much dofferently. Americans see upward mobility as a possibility in economics and status. Socialism wants all to be the same, equal poorness. That is why it never took hold here. Americans are a proud group. It is the socialist ideology that wants to enslave.
That is such a “50’s” comment. Democratic socialism is not everyone putting everything the make into one basket and living in communes. You continue to baffle me as a person who is, on the one hand, intelligent and somewhat articulate about political realities, and on the other, completely lost when it comes to the basic premise of different forms of government.
You really do need to study up on exactly what a democratic socialist is and how that form of government works. It ISN’T Marx, the USSR and hippies singing koombya. In Sweden’s case, it’s a well-structured, high standard of living, well educated, and health-conscious form of social order.
Socialism is just what it says it is. Trying to put a happy face on it is ridiculous. American capitalism has done thousands of times more for humanity than any other form of governance. How many bucks did any socialist countries send to Afica to combat AIDS? How about food? You forget those basic differences and that is why anyone with a noggin knows America is the cat;s meow.
I do understand why there are some who believe America is not the greatest place ever because the education system teaches that. We need to take back our schools from the unions and government mandates of inferiority.
You keep using that 70% number with no context. After $3million annually the top tax rate should jump to over 50% at least. Big difference. They pay the same tax rates as you or I would until they hit the $3 million threshold. It drops the incentive of monopolizing, severe exploitation of workers, and speculating on commodities.
Inheritance tax helps prevent “nobility” class who have unbalanced political influence.
It is about the health of the nation as a whole and preventing exactly what we got now a few billionaires controlling the whole ball of wax.
Almost every one of our forefathers, in setting up this republic, and certainly all of the states, were solidly against the passing of all of a dead man’s estate on to his children, for the reason of preventing another aristocracy.
As Warren Buffet so ably put it when told of an effort to repeal the inheritance tax, you might as well “choose the 2020 Olympic team by picking the eldest sons of the gold-medal winners in the 2000 Olympics”
TR, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, pick your patriot, they were all solidly in favor of keeping the nation free of today’s growing aristocracy by imposing the inheritance tax. Most people who are against it are erroneously assuming that it will also effect their own inheritance, which is absurd. There is no inheritance tax on those of us down here in the trenches. It’s another fabricated lie spun by those at the top to protect their personal empires.
“Almost every one of our forefathers, in setting up this republic, and certainly all of the states, were solidly against the passing of all of a dead man’s estate on to his children, for the reason of preventing another aristocracy.”
Could you give me the links and/or source to that?
Rather than covet my neighbors house, I’d prefer to build my own. It provides a layer of independence between me and Washington or Sacramento.
When everyone is dependent on the government, everyone votes for the government. Or else.
I will give this:
You are sitting at a computer, with the history and knowledge of the world at your fingertips. USE IT!
Google the Federalist Papers, written by Publius, (Madison and Hamilton, with a few words by John Jay).
Google Jefferson or Adams on inheritance.
Google to your hearts desire.
But don’t expect me to write you a term paper full of facts and direct quotations so that you can merely throw your party line pissy-notes back at me.
When have you EVER listed your sources or links? Most of your comments are stale old talking points from cold war era perspectives.
I happen to have the Federalist Papers permanently placed on my computer’s desktop because I enjoy reading them over and over on occasion. Look them up and read them just one time; you’ll love it.
Don’t be so damned intellectually lazy.
The easiest way to research someone’s quote is to copy and paste it to your search bar and hit enter.
I have schooled Todd on the Federalist Papers, founding letters, Madison’s journal/ notes on the Constitutional Convention, and much much more. He has read snippets from the Free Republic publications, which has a 50% of being accurate if we are lucky and thinks he is an authority on US history.
My apologies, Bob, but I don’t understand how an inheritance tax equates to coveting my neighbors house. That money, in theory I grant you, is used for things like education, which Jefferson believed should be free, and it was until Reagan decided the money was better spent on his personal state agenda. Or health care, or SS, or roads and bridges, which is where we got them.
It was Jefferson’s, and others, thoughts that dead people have no right to the living world, outside of making sure that their offspring and spouse were not made to suffer.
Under the previous law, you still would have inherited your dad’s house and belongings, and anything else he had acquired, but those who’s inheritance exceeded a high level of comfort paid a tax on anything above what the rest of us would consider a ridiculous amount of money. It was their way of making sure that there were no more King Georges, or viceroys, or lords of state, who’s only claim to power was by coming out of a certain birth canal. No envy involved.
Nice dodge as usual ChrisP. BenE and you are truly the lazy ones. You make a fallacious statement, get challenged and do the rops-dope because you nake this stuff up. Too funny.
I know how the inheritance tax works, thank you. Luckily, my family didn’t have a business or enough property to be confiscated when the parents went to their great reward.
As far as government goes, the best government is the government that that has to look their constituents in the eye when they decide to enact a new law or regulation. The more distant the politician, the more likely he or she will forget who they work for. Of course, there have to be standards that everyone must follow, and reasonable safety nets to help the disadvantaged, but what works for LA or NY doesn’t necessarily translate to Nevada County.
Watched Gravity with my wife the other night. I kind of felt the same way, my wife really liked it. The timing of the shuttle a bit to convenient for me but what ever, the setting of the story was kind of original. Not a drug and alcohol riddled person making their way through life destroying everybody else life around them or a chronic repeat victim with a good heart. It was entertaining but would have been better at matinee prices.
Matinee prices? Eighteen bucks ain’t exactly cheap. These days, I only go to the movies when there is something playing that demands to be experienced on a huge screen. For the most part I don’t feel the need to be the first kid on the block to see Hollywood’s latest spectacular like I used to. I’ll wait six months and watch them on cable or Netflix.
October 8, 2013 at 8:56 am
It is not about coveting, it is about power. I don’t want the Walton heirs who have done virtually nothing on their own dictating the laws you and I have to live with. Sadly enough it has always been that way and most likely will always be but that doesn’t mean we do not try to minimize that power through our common tool as citizens, our government. Unless you want street justice to rule the day. Even then we get those bastard like Jay Gould who said something along the lines of-
I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.
What false statement did I make?
“BenE and you are truly the lazy ones. You make a fallacious statement, get challenged and do the rops-dope because you nake this stuff up. Too funny.”
Oh, well how is it not true?
I repeat, what false statement did I make?
Too many to print. Ta Party, Republicans, Me the list is endless.
You got that right. Time to get off the merry-go-round.
Let’s get a Brown suit for Todd, a Green suit for Ben, and follow them as they stomp though the town of Washington!
That is such a funny seen and aftermath.
“There were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident”
We need many more Howard Dean, Russ Feingold, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Dennis Kucinich’s progressives like them in the leadership of some political party. A bunch of strong statesmen/ women that represent the interests of the people of industry profits.